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Tran Linh
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PostSubject: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:17 pm

Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:07 am Topic: About XscansX policies

READ THE SPOILER FIRST, PLEASE!

Spoiler:
 

In response:
Hello, this is Tran Linh, I am your lazy translator and unfortunately, there's a crappy founder like me managing such a great group. In short, I was accessing the group's account XscansX to release Sun Ken Rock 48, but then the message you see above came to XscansX's inbox, and I think it's about time I speak up.

First, thank you Mr/Ms. Mar*** for sending your message to us. I like you, you are very straightforward while remaining polite at the same time, I'm so happy we have such a dedicated fan. Frankly speaking, at least you are speaking your true thoughts about us. Yeah, any feedback we received is much appreciated, and we always rely on that to do our best to improve ourselves. For that, I thank you very much. My time is a bit limited but I will try to explain this in detail for you, and everyone else. I was under the impression that many people thought of us as a group for trying to make a profit too.

1. The adf.ly ads, are not ours. They belong to forumotion. We don't gain a cent from those ads. When I set up XScansX 8 months ago, I made the mistake of choosing Forumotion's free forum. In the first 2 months everything was okay, but gradually, adf.ly would appear on every single file sharing link. For example, mediafire, megaupload... That's when I went to forumotion's help forum and asked if I can at least pay to get this off of our site.
However:
http://help.forumotion.com/t86981-buy-credit-to-get-rid-of-adfly
was their response.
In short, we really want to move out of this forum as soon as possible because of the annoying ads... The ones that are troubling even our staff when we exchange files and for our "Behind the scenes" work.
There's also that big ad on the header as well =.=.

2. The reason we don't use mediafire or megaupload is because we don't have much money, and because we are already spending around $80-100 a month for Manga Raws, and other expenses (for example, we just bought a scanner that costs $120 for a friend in Japan so she can scan us manga, for the price of $14 a volume (Which will cost much more if we require her to debind the volume for better scans), or $6 for a weekly magazine raw (but recently she refused to scan us such raw anymore, her reason was "it's too troublesome and is not worth my time"). All those things take money, but we don't have that necessary money. So we could only come up with a solution: using the file hosting that has a payment plan, like: depositfiles, and filesonic in order to recover some of our expenses. We aren't getting that much, for example:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/8/26211516.png/

Filesonic: for one chapter of nozoki ana, we get around 200 downloads. For that amount of downloads, it only earns us like $0.5 for one chapter, the same would apply for depositfiles and uploaded.to. So in total we never recovered anything, but rather, the more we scanlate, the more money we lose. It has gotten to the point that our own members had to donate money, and that made me hurt so much that I made a ban so that our staff could NOT donate anything. They have done so much work for our scanlation purpose, they have spent so much time to help bring out manga, while in that time they could enjoying playing Portal 2 or go out with their friends, they could be enjoying Avatar or something like that...
Anyways, I find that unfair and unjust to receive inside financial support from our own staff. We are a group, so if the group is doing a project, let the group's fund pay for it, if not, we have to find a way. Depositfiles, Filesonic or so is our only option now.

Regardless, I'm really happy we have such staff and dedicated people within our group, there's no way XScansX could grow so fast only after 7-8 months in existence with around 300 releases between 3 of our groups. But, what's ironic is that, in the eyes of many people, we are branded as a "for profit" scanlation group. That is, in my opinion, not true and utterly unfair to our staff. I couldn't care less about my reputation or pride, but for other XScansX staff members, it's rude and discouraging to be thought as such. We still move along in our way regardless of what other people say or think. We are lucky to have such loyal, and dedicated staff. Everyone here is like a family, laughing, chatting, and getting angry together, that's how we could keep going on.
However, misunderstandings come one after another, this is not the first time I have had to make such a declaration. See the post I wrote like 5 months ago in this very forum.
http://www.xscansx.com/t742-was-about-to-post-a-new-release-but-someone-pm-me
Still, even to this day, I have still received so many negative PMs or emails like the one above. I couldn't care less about them since I'm an arrogant bastard, but when it comes to the whole group's image, no, our staff's image, my second family's reputation, I can't stand this anymore. And so I decided to take this chance to get the out in the open once and for all.

Tl,dr; read below:
We are not making any money off of this. In fact, we are losing money, our own staff had to make donations at one point so we could afford to keep going.
We are collecting money, cent by cent to rent a paid site hosting service. After receiving some donation lately (thank you, everyone who donated to us) and the money from filesonic (still at $8, so we need like $12 more until we can withdraw to our group's paypal account (=.=!), after paying for the monthly raw...at this rate, in around 5-6 months we can hope to move this forum to somewhere that doesn't have such bad service (eh, this is a free site, so it's unavoidable).

Anyway, we would like to thank everyone who understands about our current, complicated situation and sympathizes with us. I really hope I don't have to write this another time (ugh, been a bit busy with my real life lately, between moving countries to starting school, I apologize T_T). Anyway, we really appreciate that everyone is reading our releases and is giving us your blessing. That's one of the joys of being a scanlator. (A bit tough, but we will do our best).

Thank you very much for reading my long (and boring) statement *bow*
Regards~
Tran Linh



Last edited by Tran Linh on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 pm

It's not $5-7 per magazine. We were being charged $5-7 per magazine raw CHAPTER. Not the full magazine.

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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:53 pm

adding something related here:
http://foolrulez.org/blog/2011/06/mangafox-sucks-readers-say-scanlators-are-greedy/#comment-52784
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:12 pm

Well, first thanks for your great work! And for Mr/Ms. Mar*** there are lot of programs for downloading from file hostings. For depositefiles, they made their own manager, which is a bit stupid with installing, but work well. Yeah, it is boring to download with shitty speed from depositfiles, but if you use this manager, then all downloads will be in background - you won't worry about anything. Yeah, speed sux, but hey - wait for the full volume, and i must thank xscansx for making volumes.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:32 pm

wow, one hit after another, the question is wich manga will be dropped because of this?? haha joking. Hope none
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:37 pm

Naw, we aren't planning to drop any series.


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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:45 pm

I´m just paranoic because now foolrulez is also involved they also hold many great series, like i said i´m paranoic couldn´t sleep well last night jeje
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:48 pm

leonardotorres wrote:
I´m just paranoic because now foolrulez is also involved they also hold many great series, like i said i´m paranoic couldn´t sleep well last night jeje

FoOlRulez has nothing to do with this, I simply wrote a post about how there's people having no idea where scanlation comes from. We have no money problems, didn't lose translators, didn't gain weight, nothing.
We have no reason to drop any of our series and my team wouldn't just rage because of some troll. Actually, I'd say trolls are every-day stuff for us.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:50 pm

Hey, just registered to say kudos on taking your time to explain everything.

Sadly, there are many people who aren't aware of this and jump to conclusions, either because they are uninformed or because they take advantage of the anonymity of the Internet. Unfortunately, it's easier to vent your anger than expressing your gratitude. But don't let it get to you. There's a bunch of us who are really thankful for your work.

Anyway, I'll just take this chance to say something you should hear more often: thanks for your hard work.

Hope you can keep it up!
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:57 pm

ah yeah, i linked to woxxy's site just to point out who is making money, and who are the real culprits that is the cause of this drama between scanlation and the readers. I think woxxy post is very meaningful and precise so I thought I could link your site's post too, sr if I caused you trouble, Woxxy Neutral
@Mrkel: thank you, at least there are understanding people, phew...
anyways, we don't intend to drop any series now, just that I had to get that out of my chest or i would snap again (life has been harsh to me lately =.=). Anyways, it was the group's face, XscansX's staff face so I have to speak up. Had it only been me alone being criticized, I wouldn't have caused a scene like this. Sr for the trouble, guys.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:03 pm

Tran Linh wrote:
ah yeah, i linked to woxxy's site just to point out who is making money, and who are the real culprits that is the cause of this drama between scanlation and the readers. I think woxxy post is very meaningful and precise so I thought I could link your site's post too, sr if I caused you trouble, Woxxy Neutral

Didn't cause me any trouble, and actually proves how easily distorted is the perception of readers by just seeing a link, as I said in the article with the watermark point.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:03 pm

While I appreciate the person for asking so politely and not jumping into conclusions, I have to say its very unfortunate that some people always assume that the group is making profit. I originally only intended to help out during last winter break, but I've stayed here because enjoy working with this group. Everyone here is friendly and understands that scanlation is just a hobby, and unlike other teams we are never given deadlines. We are in this group simply because we share a common interest in working with mangas we enjoy, not because we want to make profit from them. Xscansx is definitely not a sketchy group with some evil motives behind it Rolling Eyes . I can see how hard the staff here works to ensure high quality scanlations for their readers. It sucks that Tran and the staffs have to constantly deal with this type of thing when they dedicate so much of their time and effort into getting these scanlations out to the readers without any gain. To those who are in doubt, Tran always tell us whats going on with the donations and where its being spent (he goes as far as to even print-screening his account to show us). It is always for the benefit of the readers because the money doesn't go anywhere but to the raws. I would never work for a group that makes profit off of free scanlations and I can tell you guys that xscansx is not a group that makes profit from scanlations.

btw Tran, thanks for always stepping out for the group cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:43 pm

For taking time off of your busy schedule to respond to my pm I really am thankful.

I had in mind that it could be something like that, but your post is most detailed and insightful that I have nothing else to ask, instead I want to express my heart felt apologies for any inconveniences I might have caused you as a person or as a team, sorry.

Now to really appreciate the work of a scans team there are a few things to consider. First these people are giving valuable time to give to the community a work that over the years has become professional-like, and in almost all cases the most they get out of it is a thanks from a grateful reader (those are a rare bread obviously). second the nature of the work that's being done, I will talk from experience here since I've done jobs as a professional designer (and coder for the web), and semi-professional translator (French->English/Arabic and vice versa), and believe you me those tasks can be really taxing both mentally and physically, so in the end I quit both and focused on coding for some time then became a teacher.

Cleaning (RAWs) can be a repetitive task and a serious pain in the neck, doing it for a chapter I estimate it takes 20 to 30 minutes for a weekly mag that counts 18page/chap (1,3mn/chap) to get an acceptable quality by today's scans standards, that's the time an episode of anime takes Wink , now cleaning is but a fraction of the work there's still typesetting and the most rare of skills: translating, all in all that can add up to a few hours for releasing a chapter that one reads in a few minutes.
plus there's the feat that such groups accomplish and that's being consistent, dedicated and release on a precise schedule and not quitting halfway (something that's very tempting when you're doing free work Smile) dark horse(pros) quit 3x3 Eyes after 3 volumes I think.

I say bravo for even taking time to do this, I know I want to but I can't, if you're anything like me you'd view them (scans guys) as miracles, why? well for me after a busy day at work, I have to hurry home and study for my master degree, on weekends I have to socialize a bit with friends and family, or go on dates and stuff, so all in all, if anything should be said to those guys scanlating stuff for us, it should be thanks and encouragement and read the stuff they release in its HQ format, cleaners and editors put so much in this that reading on an online readr is just a crime, I never use mangafox or anything like that, doing so is just a sin. (Please excuse any language mistakes, I am self taught Wink)

TL;DR
Sorry,thanks, and continue the beautiful work

An avid reader of yours


Last edited by marzu on Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:52 pm

I completely understand your Situation and even though I dont like the adfly or the filehosts, they seem to be essential to you and your continued existence. So, its a very small price for the reader to pay, in order to be able to read his/her favourite manga.
So, thx for sun ken and Im looking forward to your new forum (in the not so distant futute ) Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:36 pm

I also want to thank you for the work you are doing. The quality of your scans and translations are excellent and you have a very active and dedicated group which is something praiseworthy.

I don't mind the ads or that you use depositfiles, I know scanlation cost money and a lot of hours of work, if I can return back something to you by downloading from depositfiles I'll do it happily.

The only problem is that usually the download links direct me to a suscription page and I have to end using the mirrors at filesonic.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:08 pm

Tell Mar*** to go eat a dick and shut the fuck up. I haven't had a problem downloading anything. Waiting a few seconds to click on a download link? So what? People can be such whiners. You're downloading a chapter that took time and money to translate for free. That's like pirating a game and bitching that you had to go through megaupload to download it for FREE. Jesus, learn Japanese, go to Japan, buy the raw, translate it, manage a website, put up with bitchy forum lurkers, and then whine. Until then, download the chapter, say thank you, and drink a can of -shut-the-fuck-up- since it doesn't do anything but inconvenience you 45 seconds and pressing a little x on the top right screen to close a window. You're luck to have been born in an awesome era such as this, imagine being this old in the 90s and enjoy downloading your manga and getting viruses every website, not to mention taking hours to download something that takes 2 minutes now. You ungrateful fucks.

Bad day and yes I mad.
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:07 pm

@Daval
LOL
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:55 pm

Hey tran, I think I have a stray megavideo acc we can use for uploads, I'll have to double check but I'm 70% sure I have a premium acc for all the adoring fans

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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:56 pm

And have people wait in line for the previous downloader to log out?
Not gonna work bro.

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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:58 pm

i agree with what Daval tryin to point out..
u get a godd quality translate manga on top of that it.s free!!! why whine about it!
just thik about that before "someone in somewhere i dont care there are a lot outthere" whine about each and every small thing to the guys that doin one helluva good job to bring manga to us!!
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:59 pm

Oh yes, forgot about that, oh well O_O

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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:01 am

cheers I think Daval pretty much spoke for the majority of the "appreciative" lurkers/fans of xscansx with that post....Also, I'd like to express my thanks and gratitude for the great job you guys have been doing, I know it hasn't been easy putting up with us. I've been lurking for a while but I think it's utterly absurd that a huge essay like that was even needed. It's not really my intention to attack Mar*** (I'm not one for all the internet beef) but I just don't understand why some people can't just be grateful, download the manga, and go about their life. /rant
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:27 am

Is there any way that all scanlator use common mangareader program that make us able to get latest update from them while when we click that manga..we are directed to the scanning group hosting online reader??
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:40 am

Thank you for your dedication
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PostSubject: Re: The last straw.   Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:55 am

Please restrain yourselves a little. I understand Daval's passion, and I'm grateful that there are so many people who understand our dedication and difficulties. Mar*** was quite civil and understanding in his question, not rude, so we should reply in a similar manner.

I also understand Mar*** pain. Adf.ly is annoying. As such, in the "for work section" we use the [code] so that we can avoid it, of course, that means we have to copy paste and open in separate tab, which is an inconvenience in itself, still, beats waiting 5 secs for no reason.

Another thing is that smaller companies like Bitshare and Filesonic are annoying in that if your using a download manager that isn't theirs. E.g. IDM (Internet Download Manager). When you click on the download link, after waiting 60 sec or w/e the countdown time maybe. Instead of giving you the file, it tells you that you're already downloading a file, or downloads a small html file, and you have to wait an hour or so before you can download the file again. The way to avoid this is to download without using a Download Manager, again, an inconvenience. The bigger companies (Hotfiles, Depofile etc all used to have this problem) have found this bug and got rid of it, but all the smaller hosting sites still suffer from this problem.

You might argue, why don't we use bigger sites then, well the answer to that is funds, as Tran has explained. MU gives $100 for 100 000 downloads. Which would take us ages to reach. MF just doesn't give funds at all. Bitshare and Filesonic are the best paying sites, yet even with them, we aren't making enough to cover our expenses.

P.S. Tran, just sticky this.

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