Ah ok that makes sense, well more learning for me to do now. Thanks.

From your information page (first link) we don't do 4.2, I do touch up color pages 4.3(sometimes), 4.4 I knew about, 4.5 was brand new to me, 4.6 is kinda obvious, 4.7 I have been taught about lolz, have 4.8 and dislike 4.9 and I use a different program then 4.10 but same effect
but damn, the more you know

ALSO, Rakan take a look at that link!!

Editted** see post above

I still haven't read all the posts yet ;__; I can't multitask, cuz I'm not a woman ;__;

Lol K read it all, damn that's a lot of text :/

i have that paged bookmarked and looking at 4.2 who ever did that is god-like redraw skills my hand is not steady enough to do that

If you do stuff like that use Illustrator and the pen tool, and you might as well make it a vector art with a size of 6000x8000 :/

I´, goring to sleep, I think, it´s more interesting xD

lets sit down and talk:
1. "Sentōsha has been realeasing chapters of Shonan 14Days since chapter 17"

_

Quote :

I am ccp from Sentōsha. I am not going to get into how Sentōsha was created and since when, nor on the fact that we've been releasing GTO Shonan 14Days long before you did

_

Quote :

Sentōsha has been realeasing chapters of Shonan 14Days since chapter 17, and our members have been working on scanlating it at varying degrees since the series started. However, we were forced to take a pause in releasing after chapter 23 due to private reasons. During that time, translations were still made and the chapters were still being worked on, but there were indeed no releases. Coincidentally, we had just stirred back into activity and were about to release a second version of chapter 24 when XSCANSX joined in

+ So the Sentosha team must have existed before or at the moment chapter 17 was released (you said that yourself, in the second quote). Your final release was chapter 17 in Dec 11 2009 according to mangafox upload.
The later chapters 18, 19, 20, 21 were all done by Keishouscans, a well-known scanaltion group, and then to 2 other groups. Can you tell me why did they take over it without consulting to YOU (who claimed to be releasing the manga?, did they just come and take it like that?)
Then can you give a proper reason for your done-but-not-release(?) for all these chapter 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28? According to your saying, you did them all but still didn't release it right? How about you show us all these above chapter's translations or released version of yours? Or are you implying that I just have to believe what you said here on the internet, behind your computer desktop that "I've done them all, I've been trying to release but well, some thieves were on me, so..." I am a guy who trusts easily but, for your claim, I found it reluctant to put my faith in. Particularly about the part that you release only one chapter in Dec 2009 and now just another chapter in Nov 2010. What should I do with you who actually release only one chapter in a year that we can see as evidence?

2. "Sentōsha has been realeasing chapters of Shonan 14Days since chapter 17"

---> here is chapter 17 with the team credit on:
http://www.mangareader.net/287-41557-20/gto-shonan-14-days/chapter-17.html
The team has a name, it's Hayaku Naruto Trad. They even have a 2 sites which totally conflicts with what you said "Sentousha doesn't have a website" thing. But you again did mentioned about your team existence after chapter 17. Why is there the conflict?

3. Comparing the credit page: lets see
http://www.mangareader.net/287-41557-20/gto-shonan-14-days/chapter-17.html
Chapter 17: done by Hayaku Naruto Trad.
Translator: Bandit_lengend
Clean: Cy, Maeda, Soul, Light & houhei
Check: Cytior, Ccp
Typeset: Ccp

http://mangable.com/gto_-_shonan_14_days/chapter-29/21/
Chapter 29: done by Sentousha.
Raw: unknow & Rena chan
Translator: spirit
Edit: Ccp
Proof: Sanden

The only one who was in the same credit page in the only two evidences is YOU, Ccp (if this is who you claim to be), an editor. The next chapter done by Keikeshou Scan, there was no trace of any one of you to be found. What happens to

Quote :

What you must understand now is that we at Sentōsha are all very big fans of Fujisawa, and have been for years

and

Quote :

All of our members have a scanlating/fansubbing history stretching over several years that involves at least one of his works

So your team are so dedicated that no one but YOU left on your new team? And what makes even more conflicting:

Quote :

We also have a translator whose work is done seriously and consistently, and who actually makes a living as a professional translator, aside from working on GTO as a personal hobby

Your team has existed since 17, your translator as a part of your team at that time was Bandit_Lengend. Where is he now? Spirit is not him. Everyone on chapter 17's credit who are dedicated to the manga (As you said), are not here in your new team except for only you.
Also can you tell me that releasing only 1 chapter in a year, is the answer of your dedicated attitude? Think in other people's situation, will you even believe that?
My conclusion is that the only one who has ever done a bit of work for GTO in your group was you, a typesetter. But you'd archived nothing in order to keep up your team, and your releases. Now you are trying to take back a the manga when you have taken in a team. So when your team again, break apart, you will leave it as you already did.

4. You don't like debuting in Mangafox or even Mangaupdate...great, your own opinion, I don't judge about personal opinion. But

Quote :

I'm a bit of an old-fashioned scanlator, having been in this for a while, so I used to rely more on IRC releases, Mangahelpers

Great, mangahelpers huh?, Ccp you dug your own grave:
Take a look at my post in mangahelpers months before I decide to take over GTO:
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64694
We were talking about the fate of GTO in Octorber 8, 2010. My Reply was in Oct. 24, 2010 over half a month. I was waiting if anyone else was working on it. But where were YOU who claim to be working on GTO at that moment and YOU who would-have to be there in Mangahelpers if you are so dedicated and stuffs? In Mangahelpers, this is not the only thread involves with the fate of GTO:shonan 14 days. Luckily, there is another thread about translating the manga, of course, in Mangahelpers: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64921

So, there were 2 big threads asking for GTO: shonan 14 days in the biggest forum for scanlators in manga world. And YOU who claim to be here. WHY DID YOU NOT INTERFERE? Those Thread was in there for the WHOLE MONTH before we released our first work on Mangafox. Do you have any execuse?


5. At the time we interfered, GTO:shonan 14 days was at 166th place in mangafox. After our release, it's now enjoying 5x with a hot tag in mangafox with the visible rising trend, the manga are gradually accepted by more and more people. WE DID IT. NOT YOU. WHAT GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO COME HERE AND SAY "HEY, IT'S MY OWN PROJECT, WE DIDN'T DROP IT, WE JUST LEAVE IT LIKE THAT (for a year), NOW GIVE IT BACK". Think in my place: should I give this from-nowhere guy a bitch-slap? Moreover, you said it yourself:

Quote :

I used to rely more on IRC releases, Mangahelpers, and viable manga readers

so why now in mangafox if you don't like them? You even said that "mangafox take chapter 17 of us" so it means that you have no interest in uploading to mangafox. If I remember correctly, you even criticized Mangafox of their resizing the page. So WHY ARE YOU HERE NOW making a bond statement and even upload a chapter to mangafox? And, you are not the only one who use #lurk or other channels in MiRC. I've used them from the time when the bot Underwhere was still around. I went from channel to channel , leeching and laughing. But, I have never seen your channel or forum or anything we that can make a good base to scanlate a manga.

6. Finally, Team ability,
_ FrozenAquarium, the regular translator for our group, he is JAPANESE himself. Who can bring out the most of Japanese-ish to the manga? your translator or Frozenaquarium?
_ Your personal opinion on the chapter, kill the manga itself:
http://mangable.com/gto_-_shonan_14_days/chapter-29/6/
what's with those line? You are adding those of your own! It's never been a part of the manga. What are we scanlators supposed to do? Keep it as original as possible. What have you done? You are killing the manga and you are claiming to be dedicated and grateful to the mangaka?
_ Our team's releases in 20 days: 5 chapters which is most superior to your a chap a year.
_ You might want to see this post which was made in our forum:

Quote :

Thanks for the new chapter. I kinda wish you guys can upload your version of chapter 29 since the one in mangafox is sh*t tiny, can't see the text :\.

You can find it in https://xscansx.forummotion.com/news-releases-f11/gto-chapter-30-t139.htm

7. I don't want to make these statement, it's loads of hateful feeling for those who have to read it. But as I said, we are in a world of no rule, so continue as you want, but the releases in mangafox and other stream, we still do and upload it. We have done a fine job and no one can complain about our work.
And please, it took me quite a bit of time to write to answer your statement, so please don't give unreasonable or unclear reply. And lets see if we can make this out as peaceful as we can.
Looking forward to seeing more.
Tran Linh

Not to hate or anything but its ccp, you have the correct idea that its the same in both but you wrote cpp.

Might be delirious from lack of sleep but I doubt that.

okay, will fix now. Thanks for reminding me.

Right... I'm guessing you haven't been scanlating for very long, right? Your post kind of reeks of ignorance about several topics. One of them is the existence of two kind of raws for mangas, which I kind of want to address since a lot of problems seem to arise from there.

Mangas are published in magazines before they're released in tankobons, you're probably aware of that. The quality of magazine raws is often shitty which is why releases that are made with such raws are LQ. Serious groups usually make a second version of their releases when the tankobons come out, since tank raws are of better quality, and because the author tends to make revisions on their chapters when they're compiled in tankobons. This is especially true for Fujisawa who is known for never meeting deadlines in the magazines he's published in, and rushing his work on them Sometimes he even adds whole pages to his chapters when they're published in tankobons. For example, I believe you've accused our chapter 24 of missing a page once, well that page was not present in the magazine raw we used. We were going to make a second version that included that page and all other revisions by the author (I included that in my mail), but that's when XSCANSX jumped in and we had to think up of something else. Another big difference between magazine raws and tank raws is that the magazine adds splash texts at the beginning and the end of chapters, you know, to keep the suspense on. Those are removed in the tankobons, obviously, because the chapters are released as a batch, but when teams decide to use tank raws and release chapter by chapter nevertheless, they add those splashs back in so it's more consistent with the original format. They do remove the splashs when volume releases are made (you don't seem to be aware of that either, but releasing a volume is not just putting your chapters together in an archive, there are changes that need to be made). We were going to go with that, since that's how things are usually done and we agree with it.

Second thing I want to explain because you don't seem to be aware of it, Shonan 14Days is published by Kodansha, which has been known for being a pain in the scanlators' ass for years. Ever noticed how series like Get Backers, Samurai Deeper Kyo, GTO were much harder to find in scans (and to buy, considering how Kodansha removed its licences from Tokyopop a couple of years ago) than Shueisha/Shogakukan series? You'll see where I'm getting with this.

Now that this is cleared up, on to your five points.

1/ 2/ and 3/ Believe me, we've been around from the start. In the beginning it was just Spirit posting his translations on forums for people to read, and then when scanlation teams stopped being interested in S14D, we started releasing. That was chapter 17. At the time, I was the head of Hayaku Naruto Trad (HNT), yes I'll admit to that. Ask anyone from HNT and he'll tell you. Now there's a lot of complicated shit going on about that, and I won't get too much into it since it'll be off the subject, but I did fail in leading HNT on several occasions. Honestly, I'm just a 18-year-old girl whose passion is manga and who enjoys scanlating, I can't handle a big group. The reason I'm able to manage Sentōsha is because we're just a handful of fans and we don't like shit getting complicated, which is why we never said anything about people stealing our works (but you've got to agree, this is something else).

Anyway, this is to say that my failures as head of HNT probably lead to a lot of shit which you may have experienced. But at the time (around when chapter 17 was released), things worked all right. And when another team called Sentōsha, yes that's where they come in, approached us to offer a translation, we immediately said yes, because we'd been scanlating S14D in French almost from the very start, and the lack of translations for chapters 17 onwards were blocking us. If you were around at that time, you might remember that there was a several months gap between the release of chapter 16 and chapter 17. We fixed that by picking up the project in English. Spirit, Sentōsha's translator at the time, was away at the time, so we used someone else's translation, but he expressly agreed to it and it was only a one time thing.

Anyway, after that, shit got worst for HNT, and it was in part my fault, so even though we kept working on the chapters, cleaning them every single week, only our French releases were really posted on our site (since Keishou picked up the series as well, and I told you, we usually don't like complicated stuff going on between "rival" teams, we're here for the fans, and so we concentrated more on our French releases which fans were eagerly awaiting and for which there were no rival teams). Some of our English releases filtered (notably on mangafox) despite that, mostly because Keishou gave up again, and that was the case for chapters 22-24.

Now, on to the proofs you apparently need:

For chapter 22, the guy took the cleans from our French release.
Here is Rena's raw for page 02: https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img576/8051/scan002c.jpg
Here is my version of page 02: https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img823/8857/18272895.jpg
[You can download HNT's chapter here http://www.mediafire.com/?ckw8guwcx4yctmg to make sure it is indeed our version]
Here is his version of page 02: http://mangable.com/gto_-_shonan_14_days/chapter-22/02/
Now doesn't that look similar ^_^ As you can see, he did the exact same redrawing for the splash text (which we forgot to add back on our French release, shame on me), and he removed the kanjis for the author's name and added it back in the same exact font. Coincidence? I think not. Since our site is down, I won't be able to prove our chapter was released months before his and that he stole our cleans and not the opposite, but it seems kind of obvious when you compare our typesettings that he's the disrespectful noob.

For chapter 23, the guy took our cleans as well, and this time I can prove it, since I cleaned that chapter by myself, and have still got the PSDs. http://www.mediafire.com/?vwhccadhp5xj6c5 Here are two of them, there's only one page since I don't like sharing my PSDs since it's easy for someone to claim them as their own (and they're the ultimate proof someone cleaned and typesetted the chapter himself) and I don't quite trust you yet, but I guess I can post others if it's still not enough for you.

For chapter 24, the guy also took our cleans, and since I'm not the one who cleaned it I don't have the PSDs to prove this, but I can tell you the SFX editing on there is mine. You probably have a typesetter in your team, ask him to compare with the SFX editing I did on chapter 23 and he'll tell you it's the same style.

All these chapters were done as a joint between HNT and Sentōsha, anyone from HNT will tell you as much.

Now, coming back to HNT. Personal stuff happened to me between July and October, which is why I "abandoned" both HNT and Sentōsha during that span of time. Since I was the one acting as the link between the two teams, Sentōsha was deprived of editors and HNT was deprived of a translator. I still feel extremely bad about this, considering what happened. As a result Sentōsha went into hiatus (since it was their only project), and HNT stopped doing S14D. Some of my members felt extremely bad about that, which is why Unforgiven, I believe, tried to find another translator and stumbled on you guys and we all know what happened: he gave you the cleans for chapter 25 that should have been Sentōsha's cleans, and you gave him a translation. I don't think that worked out too well. By the time I was back on internet HNT had crashed but I still wanted to work on S14D, as a Fujisawa fan, so I took up Sentōsha. Trust me, I still feel bad about what happened, I'm not going to apologize about what happened to me IRL that forced the two teams into pausing their releases, but I feel how unfair it is.

Hope that cleared up the situation. I'll just end by mentioning that Sentōsha was into fansub before it was into scanlations, and that its history of dealing with Fujisawa works indeed spans over several years. My partner's been in this for 6 years.


4/ Mangahelpers have had a lot of problems with Kodansha. The outcome of it all was that Kodansha prevented Mangahelpers from hosting any of their series on their site. S14D was part of those. It kind of amazes me that you're not aware of that because it made a lot of noise around the time it happened, but whatever. Of course that didn't prevent people from talking about it on the Mangahelpers forums, but people looking for S14D knew that they shouldn't look for it on the Mangahelpers site. That's why we didn't keep up track with Mangahelpers. I mean I know I mentioned Mangahelpers, but I said that's the sites we used to keep track with, and now that Mangahelpers was forced by Shueisha/Shogakukan as well to stop hosting scans altogether, there's no wonder we stopped keeping track of it. For the record, we've stopped keeping track of Onemanga and Manga-Toshokan as well since they pretty much shut down, if that wasn't obvious enough. Let me also point out that I was away for the personal reasons I mentioned earlier around the time these two threads were posted, or else Unforgiven wouldn't have created those threads.


5/ Fine, is it Mangafox you want? As you mentioned, I've never like Mangafox, I only felt insulted that we were banned from it for something we would never have dared to do. Isn't that legitimate? But seriously, we've never wanted a reputation or anything as I've already said thousands of times, and as I've seen from threads in your forums you kind of want to make S14D the most popular manga on Mangafox and you want your team to be known. That's fine with us, we don't want any of that. We're just doing this as fans. So if we keep away from Mangafox, will that be enough for you? Willl you stop harassing us? Because we can do that if it's what you want. We just don't want people to know of us as disrespectful jerks who steal other people's translations, because we don't do that. That's the only thing we asked for from the start, really.


6/ Jesus Christ, being Japanese doesn't make someone the best translator. That statement was just ridiculous so I'm not even going to even begin to address it.
I explained where the splash comes from earlier so you've probably understood by now that no, we did not invent it. We've always stayed true and respectful to Fujisawa and his works. For example, re-cutting the chapters like you did is something we would never have allowed ourselves to do, even if we had a good reason for it (which you apparently think you have, as I've seen), and even if we'd somehow managed to purchase the creative license for S14D.
Yes our releases were slow, but that was due to personal reasons, again, and it will probably not happen again.


7/ I didn't ask for you to stop, I just asked for you to unban us from Mangafox and stop trying to make us seem like disrespectful scanlators who steal other people's translation (and without any proof, moreover), because that's just hurtful and disrespectful.

I hate to say this but your psd's only prove typesetting. as well as a change in one bubbles stem. Everything else you did was a destructive change and thus destroyed any chance of me properly seeing what you may have done with the image.

The page I gave proved that I was the one who edited the SFXs, yes. The same SFX editing remains on the pages of the guy who stole our cleans (he only cleaned out our translation from the bubbles, not the SFXs). I think that proves he stole them, doesn't it?

Oh, my bad I though this was about redrawing and image cleaning(burning and such), but yes they do prove typesetting.

Yeah, since I did redrawing and image cleaning on the same layer (and I merged the frames layer with the normal layer so I could center the page), I can't prove much about cleaning; but the typesetting shows that this is the page he indeed took.

Anyway this is an old story and I don't usually make a fuss about those things, Tran Linh just wanted a proof so here it is. I just want my unbanning from Mangafox, that's it. Even if it means not posting our releases there from now on if that agrees with you more.

About mangafox, I don't care. However the fan's are having problems reading your releases, so if you want, notify us of your HQ ones and I can add links in our mediafire folder or on this site or credit pages. If staff members agree.
Reason for this:
1) That way fans can decide which release they like better and read that.
2) It makes it competitive giving everyone more of a little boost to get stuff done.

And there is probably more but I am so tired right now I can't think of them lol :/

http://forums.mangafox.com/showthread.php?t=223203

Quote :

I removed the note, we will accept GTO's uploads by Sentōsha.

I doubt your members will agree with that, but it's very nice of you to suggest it =)

And thank you for unbanning us, that's all we really wanted. I guess I'll go my own way now.

Just a last thing, for the record: we have translations available until quite far up ahead. If your translator ever gets tired of translating this series and you need translations, we can always find a way to join our forces. I'll still be releasing anyway.

I hope that settles the matter. Thank you for showing you can be understanding ^^

I doubt frozenaquarium will want to quit lol

That settles it, then We'll each go our own way.

Okay guys no more flame wars about this shit.
Anything else gets deleted.

Resolves:
1) we continue GTO.
2) we make a thread in the quality control about which release they want on mangafox.

hmmm...wow your group's past story is a mess

Your first point should have addressed something about my post. But well, you jumped to another unrelated subject about the tankoubon (and yes, I know of it, i'm right now in Japan reading magazine everydays and buying the manga tankoubon I like, so is Frozenaquarium). And what is the main point of the tank raw? Our group has been using tank raw, not the one from the magazine ('cause the shitty quality). The chapter 24 was the only one chapter we used and we did credit HNT for that. Later chapter, we cleaned all from the tankoubon which we got. Even the latest vol 5. The quality of the raw is not a matter of our talk.

I don't know what to say about this anymore. Sometimes you admitted that's your fault and things happened...you are saying on the internet and am I supposed to believe it? I will make some points to clear off the matter:

_ I asked you to provide the evidence of your chapters 18-28. I've seen none but a 2 pages and a cleaned chapter, not even a complete chapter. Demonspawn or any cleaner in my group can do a page in 10 seconds, a chapter? hah! Unless you can show us some proof of the would be English releases from you, I fail to comply with your proof. But well, nah, forget it, forget about those proof thing, my head is arching.

_ XscansX will never take over a project unless something with the responsible group is hindering the popularity of the manga. I am a fan myself. I've mentioned that everywhere. What happens with your not releasing over a year, it was your responsibility that the manga fell of the chart. But i should not be the one to judge about failure or success. I simply want to continue the manga and expand our group into the best fan-based scanlator on the internet. We received nothing but our quality is still one of the best out there. We have here all the most dedicated and friendly guys one could possibly want. That is what I want and I intend to do so. We are now fighting over this manga here will only hinder our releases and benefit for the manga. It's not of both group's interests. This world is now open for cooperating, not fighting. I will forget all the damn things, the past is the past. Now and later is important.


_ You have seen our releases. We have seen yours. Both has flaws as well as kick-ass places.

So why now, we have to fight over it, over the releases or something like that? I personally think for the best of the manga: make a joint with us. Choose the form we can help gaining mutual benefit which I can think of:
1. you choose one chapter and we do another.
2. Both join in scanlating one chapter.
We are doing this for the manga and the community. We should not argue anymore (and, since i'm a lawyer, i'm not going to admit i've lost or whatever ).

Well, anyways, would you please:
a. Form a website or forum thing? If not, you can use ours. We will open the special forum for you and your members. You can still keep the group. Release can be put in front of our forum (if that's what you want) and the fans can have a place to come to chat chit, claim their love or threat...
b. Make sure about the releasing pace.
c. Ask your members

Personally, I think about if we both can do a great job on the manga, but there are still room for further improvement. So why not help ourselves and get in touch with other in order to make more friends and get some help when you are cornered?
Consider my offer a bit, will you?

and, Demonspawn, let me talk with her a bit and wait for her answer, we should make more friends and clear all the misunderstanding from the past =.=!
And, I saved your message. I'll post it later when the joint can't be done.

Oh, okay.
PS I'd recommend an email rather than a post here tho. :/

I broke it up so it's easier to read :/


I didn't want a tl;dr

well, you've seen their skill and their dedication. In most, they show their consideration for the manga. Moreover I can see Ccp is a good person with good skill of editing and redrawing gluing, which were demonstrated in her chapters. In fact, the way she patiently read and answered my long-ass post, trying not to break out and spilling foul language deserve respect (I have total respect for that). Their translator is good as well, he even included a very detailed and useful information for the fans in the last page of their release.
We have ourselves a fast release, a big forum with many potential project, a Japanese guy (), our numerous and skillful members. It's should be more productive if we do a joint. Agree?

If we do join that helps open up more releases in other manga and more projects we can take on correct? i think it would be best for everyone