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 Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.

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Would you like to see SFX Redrawn in Ore no Imouto?
Yes, redraw them and typeset them in English
33%
 33% [ 4 ]
No, leave a side note depicting what they are
67%
 67% [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 12
 

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PostSubject: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:22 am

Well, this issue was brought up by one of the fans, and by a member of the staff a while ago.

Why redraw the Sound effects when it saves us time to leave it in the japanese original form?

We can bring up as a point that this is an ENGLISH Scanlation by english fans for the english speaking fan base, and leaving sound effects on there makes some readers confused or annoyed.

On the other hand we can say that it massacres the art if we take out the big ones, which for the most part, have been left in or has been up to the cleaner to judge whether or not to redraw it.
So until now it hasn't been a big deal.

Sure it saves us cleaners time and effort, but it's ultimately up to you, the fans. Almost all of us are willing to do the extra work to bring you the best quality we can.

So, with all that said.

We'd like you, the public's opinion on the matter.

Would you like to see us redraw the Japanese Sound effects with some exceptions?
Or would you like to see it left in the original form with side notes?
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:26 am

:U I hope most will say "No" I hate damaging the mangaka's work so muuuch xD

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:30 am

I personally think that some are fine to be redrawn while the ones that ultimately end up damaging the art should be left untouched.

We cleaners are walking a fine line choosing which should be redrawn and which shouldn't, but if you look at some from an artistic point of view it's hard to go and redraw them since the artist integrates most of his sfx and makes them very artistic.

It wouldn't be an issue if we were professionals and were able to make it not noticeable, which for the most part we can do for about 80% of the time. But the other 20% is just like OMG I SEE WHITE BLOBS.

I'm willing to keep going as is, since I have free time. But if the fans say no, then I'll comply.

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:50 am

Judging from the manga itself I would want to keep the sfx,...
but Ill let the fans decide this time

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:00 am

Yeah I'm holding off on cleaning chapter 22 until I hear back from people. I've started and gotten like... 5 pages or so done. But I don't want to have them say NO and have to redo everything haha.

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:36 am

As true as it may be in being an English Scanlation by English fans for the English speaking fan base I'm inclined to disagree to a point in this matter.

The sound effects are part of the original mangaka therefore should be left untouched with a small translated English SFX next to the panel because this and all other mangas obviously came from Japan it isn't from any place else, the same argument should be discussed if its a manwa, etc. - Even at a professional level this being done ruins the artwork it displays on the page, generally I prefer it left untouched.

An example such as In Ore Chpt 20 pg 21 & 22, Would one prefer English replacing those SFX? For those wishing to know/sound out the SFX themselves wouldn't find it appealing just leaving the original SFX untranslated for those fans, in which Xscan has translated by adding it by the panel to it's bottom/side.
I find it disturbing to be honest in such decisions to ruin it with the English SFX replacing such scenes.

On last note, it also cuts down on time for the group which could be best served in getting other works out quick for those fans. The point of these manga's being translated into English should be the content of the story, a translated English by the panel with the artwork left untouched should satisfy both the purists out there such as myself, and those wanting them translated by the offer of it being by the panel as shown with Xscan Ore Chpt 20 pg 21 bottom page.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:48 am

You make a completely valid point. Though if you buy any english graphic novel releases. All the SFX are removed and or covered with english text.

We're striving for that quality. Though seeing as I'm just a 16 year old I can't get to that level yet(+ I've only cleaned for 2 weeks or so).

Also with the big SFX, I ended up redrawing that anyways. It looked decent, and would have been fine once typeset, but we couldn't find a font to fit the mood.



Of course it took time but if it improves the reading experience for the majority of people. I think it's worth doing it.

And I'd also like to put out there. The only SFX that will be done, are the ones that I/the other staff feel isn't directly subtracting from the art.

Like I said, I'm leaving this up to the public, I don't want to ruin the series for everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:31 am

Meh, i say leave SFX in the original language. Its not as if we dont understand whats going on. Usually big fancy writing that isnt translated means something like "whoosh" or "kaboom". No ones gonna jump up and down and say "i don't understand it, its not all translated" when the main story comes from what people are saying, not SFX.
And if you do jump up and down because of it, learn Japanese Razz

My opinion, anyways. If you think you can do a good enough job and it wont ruin anything, its your choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:36 am

Lol thanks Turbo, though in this case it's not what I think, it's mainly about whether or not you guys think we've been doing a good enough job so far, and even if we have, some people still like it left alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:48 am

We are doing a good job, right guys?
Yea were just using the public opinion to see what everyone is satisfied with
if we are doing something wrong, we will try our best to fix it

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:09 am

Interesting debate! Cleaning out the sfx is definitely the most time consuming process (of cleaning) -_-...
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:19 am

Agreed, that takes up all of my time. Other then that it's only leveling(5 seconds), re-patterning in case of scan errors(1-10minutes), and denoise(however many seconds it takes my filter to do it). Redraws can take from 5 minutes for simple ones to over an hour. @_@

But as I said, we do it because it usually enhances the English reading experience. LET'S GET SOME MORE VOTES GUYS if I don't get enough (over 10) I'm going to be posting a poll on manga fox.

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:45 am

Won't let me vote, but for the most part, I don't really mind having to look over Japanese/interpret it as I go. A side note is more than enough. Me spending an extra 15-20 seconds on a page is better than you guys having to spend an hour or more of your time redrawing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:49 am

Terina, u probably have to register in order to vote
It will take less than a min

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:51 am

we could always put the translations for the sfx outside the area or somethin

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:54 am

Yeah Rakan, that's what I meant by side notes. like off to the side leave some text saying
"SFX: BOOM" or something of the sort. But for some of the super obvious ones like rain drops we can just leave it.

I'm guessing if we do leave all the SFX including the easy one (Brush over no Redrawing necessary) then our side bars are going to be full of text. @_@. hmmmmm that's the hard part of the "To redraw or not to redraw" decision.

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:16 am

Leave the SFX in Japanese and just typeset over them in a smaller font with a white boarder. That way you not only preserve the original content but also translate and educate the reader.

Also, I think you can pretty much leave alone all the simple SFX entirely... I think most of us already know what DOKI/KYUN~/KYA~/JIII and the other standards are.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:12 am

translating the SFX (redrawing the sfx) can sometimes damage the quality of the work, and when i say damage, i mean big time, English SFX just don't fit in, and it seems kinda awkward and ugly.. english sfx only fits right on Marvel and DC comics...
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:26 pm

In my opinion I would say that it is better to have redraws since the manga looks more 'English' but then as frozenaquarium said it makes the manga look a bit different if the SFX doesn't fit so I think it is better to leave the SFXs' in Japanese and put a side note explaining them.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:43 pm

Big decision.... Like rue said, redrawing sfx is the hardest part of cleaning most of the time... I say leave em and typeset on the side

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:05 pm

I will contribute something then:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/my_little_sister_can_t_be_this_cute/v03/c019/18.html
_ The screech screech SFX is throughout cleaned and well-placed. I approve of using it.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/my_little_sister_can_t_be_this_cute/v03/c020/21.html
_ Rue asked me if we should clean this one, my answer is still the same:
no, unless you can find the right font for it.

So it depends, it's not a question of "do we clean off SFX or not". It's a question of "Which SFX should we clean" in the case. That has been my decision for Ore No Imouto so far because I believe small and plain looking sfx should be cleaned off while big or artistic sfx should NOT be cleaned.
For other series. I have other approaching method.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:27 pm

I'm in agreement with both kuro195
Quote :
I think most of us already know what DOKI/KYUN~/KYA~/JIII and the other standards are.
& frozenaquarium
Quote :
translating the SFX (redrawing the sfx) can sometimes damage the quality of the work, and when i say damage, i mean big time, English SFX just don't fit in, and it seems kinda awkward and ugly.. english sfx only fits right on Marvel and DC comics...
INCOMING A LOT OF WRITTING YOU'VE BEEN WARNED !! ← ლ(╹◡╹ლ)

This debate does not simply just go with Oreimo but with all mangas, manwa, etc,. English SFX is best fit with English comics, Japanese with Japanese SFX etc, translated to the proper language being translated into adding SFX translation by or on the panel that won't hinder the original work as much as possible, the same practice with manwa blah blah.

Comments about this with any disruption of the original artwork just does not solely belong to the purest/hardcore out there reading manga who have have pet peeves about it. For Otaku's watching Anime, many are displeased so see any disruption/butchering occurring there along with crappy translation of course, the same fits with readers of their favorite comic/manga/manwa.-

As for a rebuttal to Tran:
Chpt 19, pg 18 I'm glad to know whomever could not find a font to fit those effects not to sound mean, but if it were included in English it would of not looked as good as it does in Japanese (logic since I know its original appearance) just an honest opinion it just doesn't belong. The second link, of course I'd prefer left untouched obviously.

I applaud the work(s) done by the staff (especially the cleaning by rue, dreams), sometimes it is too much though for example:
Xscan, Chpt 20 pg 01 Compared to AzakuraHime Chpt 20 pg07
but I can only make this comparison mainly due to Azas involvement in the bit of drama that arose last week or two? and because of that perhaps I am being too harsh/unfair and erhm... any other negative criticism being aimed that's not my intention to the staff in Xscan, forgive me if my comments do cause any negativity towards those involved.

Those wanting the SFX in English to them I implore you vote for what is fair to both sides that being untouched SFX with an English translation SFX by the panel. sticking to translating the content of the story that's relevant and including any extra's that should be included *stares at Xscan staff.* bounce


Last edited by kantori on Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:55 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : forgot to include dreams credit cleaning.)
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:34 pm

@Kantori
Quote :
Xscan, Chpt 20 pg 01 Compared to AzakuraHime Chpt 20 pg07
but I can only make this comparison mainly due to Azas involvement in the bit of drama that arose last week or two? and because of that perhaps I am being too harsh/unfair and erhm... any other negative criticism being aimed that's not my intention to the staff in Xscan, forgive me if my comments do cause any negativity towards those involved.

actually that those 2 pages are the raws once again lol
the manga raws didn't have all those besides the chapter number xD

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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:40 pm

eh!! cyclops
I suppose downloading the RAWs would be best in order to accurately present my argument.
Dreams making me look silly once again. Such misfortune. Razz

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rue
Quote :
I'm guessing if we do leave all the SFX including the easy one (Brush over no Redrawing necessary) then our side bars are going to be full of text. @_@. hmmmmm that's the hard part of the "To redraw or not to redraw" decision.
That is worrisome, perhaps only include the significant SFX depending on the page while obvious SFX as said by some posters such as Rain drops to be left alone, more significant SFX to be left up to the staff determining the best usage.
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PostSubject: Re: Ore no Imouto ga konnani kawaii wake ga nai Sound Effects.   Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:29 pm

Hmm, well yeah Kantori like dreams said. We were using the volume raws while she was using Magazine raws meaning better quality but it was revised and some of the content was removed by the author's choice.

And like I said, it's a fine line between "Let's redraw it" and "Let's leave it alone".
Its a tough decision to make since some are easy and some aren't, not only that but since some have barely any significance to the story (e.g Tapping of a shoe, or raindrops).

On another note, we're also using magazine raws from now on since volume 4 isn't released. The side bars may look charming, but if we leave them untranslated what good will that do? Sure, the small pictures with Kirino's head saying "I'm Kirino" could be nice, but does it really add to the story?
If it has significant story value then the translator will translate it from now on(hopefully, I'll have to bug Kuma about that). But for the time being, let's get back to the SFX issue.

Tran has been saying to choose between the artistic big ones and the insignificant small ones. As you saw in chapter 20 I did the smaller ones and left the big ones. I saw on my mangafox thread that a fellow editor likes to leave them alone, though for the most part MOST EDITORS WANT LESS WORK. Sorry to say that and offend a lot of people, just that's my feeling after working like a madman cleaning.

In the end it's still Tran's call since he's the group leader. I'm hoping he'll come to a conclusion soon and I can get cleaning again. @_@ We don't want a repeat of what happened with Azakurahime.

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